BFMTV, December 11, 2013
HC Hedwig
Chevrillon
BP Benoît
Potier
HC You announced, Benoît Potier, in your day
"investors" - we know that it is an appointment very, very important,
I want to say, especially for Air Liquide has a very diverse ownership, rather
broke you have announced 10 billion euros of investment over the period 2016 to
2020 then certainly. But that means that
somewhere you believe in the "recovery" of growth in France, Europe
and worldwide.
BP Yes, what is interesting is that we first brought both our institutional investors, since we had our day 'investors',
you said, which is finished to approximately four o'clock in the afternoon and
individual shareholders as we celebrate our centennial stock exchange listing in 2013 and combined the
day "investors" and this celebration. So it was very interesting to have the
shareholders as a whole, the same day in the same place. It was therefore the Palais Brongniart, so it
was also symbolic.
$ 10 billion of investment, this is the
second phase. In fact, what we wanted to
say is that we are first in the middle of a period of 5 years from 2010 to
2015. We tried to make a waypoint. And we did. This period is to summarize a period in which
we have invested $ 12 billion in total that is to say, a pretty significant
amount, knowing that some of these investments are a little ahead of phase
2016-2020 . So we made our accounts and
communicate to our shareholders that these investments will occur in the second
half and we were able to put additional $ 10 billion in the 2016-2020 period in
order to ensure growth.
So I actually answer your question, yes, you
have to believe. In each meeting,
"investors", was an update on the markets by saying what is the
dynamics of these large contracts that we sign in the world, what can we expect
from mature markets, what can we expect countries developed in the fields of
health, and other electronics. We posed these questions
and we arrived, in fact, an estimate of the market and from there we gave our
projections, which I remind you, are doing better than the market in both the
2010 period -2015 and 2016-2020.
HC We will remember that your turnover in
2012 was $ 15 billion, in 2013 it will be about ...
Uh BP is not yet ...
We had the first six months of the year, one
to two percent growth. So there is a significant
effect of changes that must be remembered and unfortunately for all firms in
the euro area is relatively large, but I recall that Air Liquide, it is second
order because we do not export product we do not materialize gains or losses.
HC What are the most promising markets. We know that the United States was very
important to you. Are they still? If we try to do a world tour with your eyes,
Benoit Potier, where the growth markets are?
BP This is quite interesting because I think
the main message we tried to convey to our investors is that we believe that it
necessarily must look at the world and the future growth in only a geographical
perspective . We had used until now to
watch the advanced countries and emerging markets. The rule of the strategic game was to get
this growth in China, India, the Middle East or South America. In fact, what we see today is that the growth
differential between mature and emerging countries has increased from 10% to
only 5% and this differential will continue to decrease with time. So we must now imagine a strategy that will
not only be geographical but that is to get in growth markets where they are in
the world including in our mature areas. And so, it's still a sizeable shift in
strategy since we now worry about generating new markets whether in France as
well as Europe, the USA, Japan, in China and Middle East, South America.
HC Is this we can say that this is a
specificity of Air Liquide, that is to say you produce "local" gift
it takes up growth compared to other industries.
BP Yes, this is actually a feature. We need to generate it is to say that if we
do nothing, the first of January of each year, each of our customers consume
about what he consumed the previous year plus a small something and therefore
we have a very low rate of growth will, simply put, roughly equivalent to the
growth of industrial production, but that's all. So in order to generate growth 5, 6, 7% must
be invested, we must seek projects is why we plan to invest 10 billion euros
for the period 2016-2020.
So HC 10 billion investment in what? Yet all that is health is more or less 40% of
your sales?
BP No, it's less. It is a small 20%
HC So your goal with that $ 10 billion is to
develop yourself not by region but so by sector.
BP I do not eliminate geographic areas. I'm just saying that there is a second view
that we must have on the world beyond the geographical vision is the sight of
these new markets and new markets will come in what area, what country, what
area . This is a sum of two components of growth. I return to the geographical aspect. It is undeniable that China still continues
to be an engine of growth of about 10% but we have experienced growth rates of
30% in China. So today, we are obviously
much bigger one billion euros in turnover, but the growth rate is expected
closer to 10% than 30%. Africa and the
Middle East are a relatively interesting sector for the relatively distant
future, India least since India became industrialized slower than
China. Remaining countries Eastern Europe are
growing rapidly today and those of South America. You asked me the question about North
America, there is an energy issue maybe we will have to see just now.
HC Yes, even for you, North America is a very
big market. It represents how?
BP 23% today
HC For you, it is already too?
BP Absolutely not, I think the renewal is due
to energy, this issue of shale gas in the U.S., is welcome. In fact, we find golds already short-term
North America has a growth rate much higher than other developed countries. And we have invested and continue to invest
in the future to take advantage of these opportunities just shale gas but also
technology - because the U.S. are still
countries in the world where it is possible to invest in technology.
HC Well, we will not repeat the whole debate
but it is interesting nonetheless because you shale gas has been a great
opportunity, we can say it like that.
Yes BP finally not directly since we do not
of course have been producing shale gas but our customers, in fact, have
invested in the North American region in order to build large factories and use
the shale gas cheap to manufacture their products particular chemical.
HC So you saw the shale gas miracle with
these limits may be. For you, is Europe going to
forego something with shale gas?
BP There may be two observations which are
quite non-confrontational. The first is that we do not
know if the quality of soil in Europe is such that one can extract shale gas. That we do not know. Should do for this exploration, which is not
easy on the whole of Europe.
The second thing is that even if we could get
it back, we do not know if these reserves are actually exploitable in the same
proportions as those of the United States and we do not know the exact impact
on the environment. Air Liquide as company
provides gas industry operating in the U.S. to essentially reduce water
consumption that is related to technology and this is obviously great for the
environment because part problems of shale gas are related to water
consumption.
HC But does that mean you think we could find
better solutions? In particular, your gas
could be improved - we talk about innovation in a moment - so that there is no
such problems of hydraulic fractures as powerful and frightening somewhere.
BP To some extent, yes, to save water and
actually go look where the gas can dissolve instead of crack rock. There are technologies that are applicable in
all types of terrain.
HC And you think we will one day find a
technology that will be less afraid.
BP There are experts who are better placed
than I to answer this question but I think we can improve the technology.
HC There is actually a very important part is
the bill of innovation, an engine of Air Liquide. How you spend your turnover to innovation?
BP It is 2% a little less than 2%.
This bit is HC
BP Yes, it is not much when compared to the
European objectives. That said, we invest
heavily. We are in fact called
"capital intensive" in English. We need a lot of capital to invest and
generate growth. And in fact, when you add
that generate capital growth with capital that generate long-term growth, that
is to say research, we reach 17% of turnover. To generate our growth, we are an industry
that generally invests heavily.
HC is talking about health park we know that
this is a very important center, even if it is for the moment only 23%, it is a
pole that is emerging strongly. In any case, you have big
ambitions in the investment plan the share devoted to health is how much?
BP In fact, it is roughly proportional to the
turnover, but it is not representative. Because health is a profession where one
invests less factory mainly so the investment is less. Proportionally, we invest more. So this is one of two areas with large
industry will be one of the growth engines of the group not only in the next
two years but I would say in the next seven years.
HC So you invest in electric vehicles
including Germany. You have ambitions in this
case equip hydrogen stations.
BP Air Liquide has been involved for a long
time, as you know, in research on the use of hydrogen as an energy carrier. One of the key elements or applications, it
is obviously the car engine hydrogen fuel cell. This is a battery which uses hydrogen to
produce electricity. A technology known for a
long time and on which a number of European, American and Asian automakers have
been working for at least twenty years.
There again and it's very interesting is that
today's construction technology stack and systems in the vehicle are developed
to the point that manufacturers are willing to sell these vehicles beginning in
2015.
HC But compared to electric vehicles that we
know, that particular Renault develops. I do not understand very well between
hydrogen and electric ...
BP I'll explain. The electric car is in both cases but the
autoliths example of vehicles which are operated with a battery so the energy
is stored in the battery. This is why it needs
recharging. In the hydrogen vehicle,
there are more battery but there is instead a fuel cell and a hydrogen tank and
that's what actually replaces the battery.
HC And this technology, you obviously develop
in Germany. You do not grow in France
that is not part of the country you have listed, why?
BP Because Air Liquide is actually associated
with car manufacturers. It is not we who build
cars. And these are the German manufacturers and
Japanese manufacturers who are the most advanced in these domains. So the contribution of Air Liquide, is to
produce hydrogen and bring in service stations so that consumers can directly
fill the tank with its fuel with hydrogen.
HC But there is no risk of explosion? It may be a matter of philistine, but in my
opinion, I'm not the only one asking it.
BP No, it was the first question that was
asked by the manufacturers. And in fact the
technologies that have been raised by the manufacturers. And in fact, the technologies that have been
developed to date are all new technologies that come from aerospace and which
are actually technologies that eliminate the risk of explosion of the tank
because the tank is designed with a carbon fiber coiled and therefore it can
not explode.
HC This is a major project development,
investment and one is experimental, Benoit Potier?
BP It was five years ago, I would have said
it was experimental and in our labs, we were passionate and we imagined a
future.
Today, we bought our first two vehicles in
France, registered in France our first two vehicles from Asia, Korea. In France, we were the first to do so. We obviously have the technology stations. And we are also partners of both coalition in
Germany to invest one hundred and three hundred service stations in Germany and
partner with Toyota in Japan with which we have set up a joint venture to build
service stations for hydrogen vehicles. innovation of tomorrow is practically available today.
HC to Air Liquide they are innovations that
can be done in health because there we're all imagining lots of things. Will you tell us they are the main innovations?
BP So a little reminder: Air Liquide is in
the hospital. From that side, it is well
known mainly oxygen and other services. Air Liquide is also at home. We developed home health. And this is that innovations are the most
numerous. Why? Because today, the health system needs to be
organized differently for both better treatment and lower costs. Or a well-treated preventively home patient
is a healthier patient and a patient who is less expensive to the entire
system. So, we have developed not only the service
that has been the last decade. We are currently developing
technologies. To illustrate, these are
technologies that connect the patient to the doctor, the company providing the
service, that is to say, Air Liquide and the insurer, the social security fund
for check and encourage the patient to follow his treatment. And the mere fact of adherence to treatment
and to talk with her doctor, in fact, greatly improves the health
status and the overall cost to society.
HC felt that there was a lot of innovations,
I received yesterday Bernard Charles, head of Dassault Systèmes, again there
are many innovations, connected home ...
BP Here and there we talk about health
connected
HC I do not know if you saw the declaration
of Mario Draghi said that the European Central Bank must ensure that liquidity
irrigate many businesses. Will you say that there is
a funding problem for businesses.
BP Not for large companies. We we, in fact, attended a decade deep enough
change financing by banks to markets. Today the vast majority of
corporate financing is done by the markets. We have the liquidity markets and we are as
large companies, I would say very well served by all markets. By cons we have clients who are small
businesses and we see particularly in southern Europe but not limited to
southern Europe a number of small businesses have so much difficulty actually
finding funding.
HC So it is right to make this digression. We talk about the price of electricity, in
this case, because you said just now that you were a business, a business, a
sector in all cases, which consume a lot of capital but also a lot of energy. You are part of the companies that belong to
a consortium of large companies, a consortium that negotiated, there was what,
five six years with EDF, a long-term but long-term contract that today you
extremely high prices, I think, 47 € when normally the price could be 42 €.
There is a negotiation is in progress, it is a bit complicated but today we
speak of EDF tariffs including vis-à-vis individuals. Is this for you, it becomes something to
renegotiate an emergency?
BP Yes, then there is both the problem
Exeltium is the name of this company is a consortium between a certain large
industrial energy consumers in France and many other question that is wider ,
which is the competitiveness of companies in France and Europe related to
energy prices.
I actually think that there is urgency to
renegotiate the contract that gives Exeltium actually 10% more electricity
paradoxically costs for large consumers while the initial idea was to make it
more competitive contract with respect to the average
HC ... with a possibility of early exit
BP but now a problem of non-competitiveness
for large industrial establishments that are part of this consortium. It is true that we have to find a solution. It is looking for a few years. It should we find it today.
HC That means that in 2014, you must find
the. You can not have a surcharge of 10%, I guess.
BP consequences in the short and long term
would in fact be dramatic for companies would be obliged actually to organize
differently and produce elsewhere.
HC This is a key factor, it is clear that in
the context of the energy transition, in businesses like you
BP This is an interesting topic because it is
both a subject and a long-term European issue. We as manufacturers in Europe took a very
clear position that is to say if Europe until now is much more concerned about
climate change and security of supply to the detriment of the competitiveness
of the energy.
And we actually asked European leaders for
some time to put the issue of the competitiveness of the energy at the same
level as that of climate change and security of supply.
HC Thank you, Benoît Potier, 2013 will be a
year halftone?
BP Yes, because in fact we must remember that
the first quarter was quite difficult for everyone. The economy has already suffered since
mid-2011. We saw an improvement in
the second draw and keep the third quarter, the fourth is not finished look
accounts. But what is certain is that
we have not yet found enough confidence and it is a little key word that I
wanted to put on the table. It is this confidence is
lacking today, this confidence in the short term is likely to bounce.We tried
to develop long-term by providing our goals yesterday.
